Re: [Harry Potter Official Club] Re: "What If" Question

On 7/17/08, terrianking@aol.com <terrianking@aol.com> wrote:

One thing made clear in the books is that because of their use of magic, most wizards have no sense of logic. They are amazed by the intricate ways muggles have come up with to duplicate magic. How do batteries work? How do airplanes fly?

 

John:

I can't agree the books suggest that most wizard have no sense of logic. Arithmancy was never well explained but if it dealt with the application of magic to numbers, there was probably logic of some kind behind it. You may recall that it was Hermione's favorite subject, and Hermione was quite capable of logical reasoning (witness her solving the potion puzzle in the first book).

 

Muggles have a lot going for them and we/they would be harder to conquer than the wizards think. Depending on where the loyalties of the muggle-borns lie - with their muggle families or their new magical fellows - those wizards seeking to take over will have a long and dirty fight on their hands. I don't think they realize this.

 

John:

I also would suspect the paranoia wizards have about Muggles is at least partially justified. There was a lot of persecution of magical folks, and rather than force an all-out war with Muggle-kind they opted to go into hiding to avoid a war they would rather not fight. For the most part, that is -- the pure-bloods might be more pro-war, if you asked them in confidence what they like to see happen with wizarding folk and Muggles.

 

 

There is a Muggle Studies class at Hogwarts, but it seems few are interested enough to take it, so one would wonder how much they know about the muggle world if they are not muggle-born.

 

John:

I would not be surprised if we learned that Muggle Studies was introduced by Dumbledore himself, early on as headmaster, in order to encourage curious wizards to learn more about them. Neither Harry nor Hermione, both having grown up in Muggle homes, needed to take the class, and Ron (as well as his brothers and Ginny) likely heard more than their fair share from their father (admittedly not the best source, though he seemed to make up in enthusiasm what he lacked in actual knowledge).

 

Stupefy  or crucio might work to subjugate some muggles, if not many, but there is always that 1 in 10 who will be angered by it instead of terrified - angered and spurred into action.  That 1 in 10 is the start of a resistance movement.

 

John:
Perhaps, but I think how well either spell worked was more a matter of the caster's skill than the resistance of the target, though it was shown that some (such as Hagrid, a half-giant) could resist stunning spells. The Cruciatus Curse was one Harry learned relied much on the intention of the caster ("Righteous anger won't hurt me for long," Bellatrix taunted Harry when he tried to use Crucio on her).

 

Even if there are enough wizards to take over major governments country by country, they would be spread too thin to  take over all of the various military establishments, the business sectors, financial  and industrial  institutions world wide.

I think JKR's declaration on the page that the wizarding community is small and getting smaller if they don't intermarry with muggles is a big clue that Dumbledore and Grindelwald were pursuing a pipe dream, and that Voldemort's dream of ruling the muggles would have been very short-lived. Taking over Britian would not have lasted long. The DE were able to frighten the wizarding community by taking away their wands and as you see by the begging wizards in Diagon Alley, most were lost without easy magic.

 

John:

The tactic Voldemort used, of depriving Muggle-borns of their wands, would have worked in his favor if under Voldemort's reign the Ministry promised to restore the wands of those who swore loyalty to him (verified with Veritaserum, of course). After he had control of Britain (including the Muggle government, if he played his cards right) he could have quietly purged any Muggle-borns he had doubts about and would begin training wizarding children, both Muggle-born and pure-blooded, to be loyal only to him.

 

Muggles have the advantage of never having had magic and so would miss nothing. Plus, if the wizards take out the electrical power,  we/they know how batteries work and that an electronics store with boxes of well charged batteries to put in our cell phones would make a sophisticated tool against wizards who have no idea what they are. Heck, even baby monitors would work against them as communication tools!

 

John:

But magic short-circuits the use (and therefore the usefulness) of electricity. That is certainly made clear in the books. What if there are spells to dampen the use of electricity in a region? That means nothing that's electric-powered would be useful.

 

And I'm sure a well aimed sniper's bullet would take out a wizard as fast as it would take out a muggle.

Just my opinion, but wizards might be able to put themselves in positions of power in the muggle world, but they will never be able to hold them. 

 

John:

By and large, the better technology wins. It's not a guarantee, but magic is a clear advantage over no-magic. The advantage Muggles have is sheer numbers -- it could be possible for them to overrun wizards in an all-out attack, but I would shudder to think how many would fall before the wizards would tire and retreat by turning on their heel and Disapparating away.  What kind of mayhem could a wizard battalion do with the Killing Curse, transfiguration spells, Confundus, Entrail Expelling, and all the other gruesome magic that's potentially theirs to command. I suppose we should be happy that Jo Rowling decided to let the Wizarding community go into its second "golden age" for the first 19 years after Voldemort's death.

 

Thanks for the discussion, Robert!

 

John

 

Robert

 

 

 

 

In a message dated 7/15/2008 6:20:19 P.M. Central Daylight Time, freakypsychic07@yahoo.com writes:

In my own opinion, I think they would wait to state whether they are
muggle or wizard. They could cheat and raise to the highest ranks they
could in government or else, and then, after they have enough people
inside, they can take it down. I havent read everyone's post. Maybe
someone thought of this. But to fight the far fight- I doubt all the
wizards in the world would be evil. Not every single one of them. And
if they were, then we could stand no chance. We'd be slaves. Think of
all they know, all the power they hold, and think of the possibilities
they have to hurt you, to control you. To kill you. And by fight or
flight action, you either die or become a slave. Thats my thoughts.

--- In harrypotterofficialclub@yahoogroups.com, "John Distazo"
<John.Distazo@...> wrote:
>
> What if the Wizarding world decided to take over the Muggle world?
The idea
> that Dumbledore/Grindelwald had in their youths might have been a
starting
> point, but it seems like all of the Wizarding communities, from all
across
> the planet, would have to be united on this. So far only three wizarding
> schools have come to light, all in England or Europe -- it is hard
to tell
> what the wizarding presence is in the Americas, Africa or Asia.
>
> If Voldemort had any kind of plan, it didn't seem to extend much beyond
> Britain. Of course, he also planned to be immortal, so he may have
thought a
> thousand-year reign under the same man (him) was possible. What does
anyone
> else think about the chances of the Wizarding world conquering the
Muggle
> world?
>
>
> John
>

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